Wednesday, November 7, 2007
Nelson Price and Fisher Humphreys Proved to be Erroneous - II
Continuing our point-by-point answer to a particularly silly post by Nelson Price, who will not respond to our e-mails informing him that he is in error.
"The five Canons of Dort are summarized by the acronym TULIP standing for:"
Our Comment: The synod of Dort was called to ANSWER the Arminians, so that its five points are simply a mirror-image of the five points of Arminianism. If Nelson Price disagrees with four of the five points of Calvinism, then he is an ARMINIAN, whether he likes it or not.
Irresistible grace and the
Preservation of the saints.
The last of these is the primary one with which the original Baptists agreed as do most present day Baptists. The other four tenants are held by a vocal minority of Baptists."
Our comment: More begging the question. In fact the majority of the old Anabaptists and General Baptists were far more coherent in their theology and reasoned that as free will was so important a man should be able to damn himself by his free will as well as be saved by his free will choice, so they held that true saints could nevertheless finally fall away. The modern belief in an 'eternal security' unrelated to God's unconditional election or efficacious saving grace would be ridiculed, and rightly so, by these Arminians. As we have noted, some of the Anabaptists opposed the doctrine of salvation by grace alone as antinomian. They would say that the modern doctrine of once saved, always saved is an evil, antinomian doctrine. As indeed it is.
We assume 'Tenants' to be simply a mis-print for 'Tenets'.
"Calvinists point out various Christian leaders who adhered to their beliefs. A far larger number can be noted who disagree with them. It is not a matter of who believes what but the validity of what is believed that matters. These held by an articulate minority of Baptists are presented with viable objectivity."
Our response: Not hardly. We find presented here nothing but the same stale objections we read in Wesley and Adam Clarke. Only Wesley and Adam Clarke were more consistent. Of course numbers are not important, but truth is very often in a minority. The question is not, how many people in Church history agree with this teaching, but, is it Biblical?
GOD UNCONDITIONALLY ELECTS SOME PEOPLE TO BE SAVED
This is a sweet truth of the Word, for if God had not unconditionally elected some, then all would have perished in their sins.
"Calvinists believe in what is known as “double predestination,” that is God predestined how people would respond to Him and foreknew they would respond. Baptists cannot reconcile this idea with such texts as II Peter 3:9 “the Lord is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance…” and I Timothy 2:4 stating God “will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”"
Our Comment: We note that Price falsely claims that his views are 'Baptist'. In fact historically most Baptists would have rejected his interpretation of these texts and affirmed that which he says Baptists cannot accept. We would point him to 1 Thessalonians 5.9: "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ." From this text we see (and no Arminian Bible commentator that we have consulted disagrees) that God has appointed some to wrath and some to obtain salvation. Now what is this but double predestination, in the Word of God? Furthermore, in verse 10 we read of those who are appointed to obtain salvation that Jesus died for THEM. So there is Limited Atonement as well. And in the ninth chapter of Romans we see the sovereign freedom of God set out in all its glory. Now Dr. Price will say that Jacob and Esau refer to nations, but will he please tell us where the chapter switches from individuals to nations and back again?
Dr. Price has his 'Arminian texts', he thinks. What he fails to realise is that there are no Arminian texts in the Bible. Take 2 Peter 3.9. Dr. Price quotes it as “the Lord is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance…”, but in fact it reads, "“the Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” Now who are the 'us' here? They are those to whom Peter was writing, namely 'them that have obtained like precious faith with us', that is, to Christians. To those, as he says in his first letter, 'Elect according to the foreknowledge of God'. Now we see that this verse actually speaks of God's love to the elect, that He is not willing that any of the elect should perish.
"In general Baptists believe God chose to save those who would of their own free will put their faith in Christ. They do not believe God in His sovereignty arbitrarily decided who would be saved and who damned. They believe God wants all people to be saved but will not override their free will given them by God."
Our comment: This belief is directly contrary to the Biblical declaration that God is no respecter of persons. It exalts the will of the creature above the will of the creator and declares that those who were saved can thank themselves for it. No Free-willer can sing 'Amazing Grace' consistently. The Scripture says that we love Him because He first loved us, but the Free-willer says that He loved us because He first saw that we would love Him. This figment of prescient election is based on a highly dubious interpretation of the term 'foreknowledge' as applied to God. Now is not the time for a detailed study of the term in Scripture, but we commend such a study to our readers. God willing, next time we shall look into the meaning of this word in the Bible, and see that Nelson Price and his free-will brethren are guilty of textual abuse.